Curse

Dante the Warlord · Jun 27, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xx Monkin xX

Maybe a slight over exaggerated on my ecto averaging, however if the terra's are actually going for speed then they have far less chances of drops, because they shouldnt actually be clearing that much, if they are then they aren't very good terra's. However, if the WHOLE party have chipped in for these cons, aka terra's and all, well to be honest they have every right to farm, you have all put the same towards the cons, therefore just because the ursan team fails, why should they leave when their cons are still ticking away, making an easy farm for themselves

Yes, you lose the profit, but heck unless you had nothing to do with the ursans wipe, then all you can do is blame yourself for being reckless on the aggroes, or blame the monk that was rubbish, and accept that the terra and sins will farm, with the cons THEY have chipped to

Im not asking them to NOT farm, its easy to see that they don't want to waste perfectly good consets, im just saying they also have a lower risk to lose their money. If the ursan fails and none of the terras/perma sin has a rez scroll its not fair that they make money out of something you helped pay for... I do agree with someone who said everyone should have consets, thats actually a very good idea and at least in the group people will have consets rather then spamming on WTB CONSET. I still feel that the perma sin and 3 terras should chip in 3.5k each, basically one measly ecto they could make in one run, not to bad imho...

Also, most of the terras now a days want money, they will obviously go more for the clear of the entire area to maximize their profits, thats just what they do. Many times they die because they over aggro searching for lots of ectos. Lets not forget they also get at least 4-5 golds a run sometimes even at 7(which i feel personally is an average).

The main problem with consets is simple to see: risk. Obviously terras make far more money then everyone else in the team, but none of them want to risk it. No pain, no gain... they lose money if they go into a noob group, but in one successful run they can definitely make it back.

i also see a major flaw in chipping in, sometimes the person just runs away with your money. I remember once when we each had to pay 2k each for consets. I didn't wanna wait for another group and i paid the 1k to one person and another 1k to another, we went in one conset used and near the middle we died. then the person who took the other 1k ran off with a collective group conset. heck that even might be the strategy of the terras, to get a free conset, so tell me how that is fair...

And you can't just pay in game because the group splits up. So i think this is a good new issue to bring up. And if you do this repeatedly, you can make lots of money 6k from each group, many times, depending on the type of group and if you go 2nd all the time you take no risk since if you last after the second round you are usually safe, plus you make the ectos if the ursans die or just through running for a few minutes. Pure profit... thats the major flaw i see in pooling assets...

Commander Ryker · Jun 27, 2008, 03:05 PM // 15:05

I moved this to Riverside because the question is more opinion based and feels like a discussion.

Big_Iron · Jun 27, 2008, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Never used them, but then again, when I do elite missions I go with my guild group. We've played together so long, we have pretty good synergy.

Brother Andicus · Jun 27, 2008, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

and ursan r 10 is VERY hard to reach.

If there were a definition of epic fail, that statement would be it.

Dronte · Jun 27, 2008, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Dont play ursan, you wont have problems.

Sniper22 · Jun 27, 2008, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick_

ever tried that in a Hard Mode pug?

Ya works out great.

Zeff Nut · Jun 27, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

I have posted something similar to this earlier but ran into it again last night. I usually play a war when going in a team to UW (600 monk if I want to go for ectos) but what I have noticed for quite some time is that Ursans are pretty much expected, many times demanded, to have con sets. Now I don't have a problem with this, I get a ton of mats and craft my own (gotta do something with skill points) and right now I have 12 sets on my war, my issue is that since teams have started moving to more terras and perma sins and less ursans and monks, there seems to be way more failures during runs, and as a general rule the terras and sins never have cons. The only reason I group with a pug for UW is for a chance at end chest, before when it was ursans and monks, 1 or maybe 2 terras, I felt the odds were pretty good at finishing run, I have wasted so many sets recently on terras farming away and failing horribly on 4 horseman or getting killed in there respective areas and ragequitting because they don't get an imediate res that I have just stopped going, the hassle, risk, and waste of time is just not worth it anymore.

Damian979 · Jun 27, 2008, 06:18 PM // 18:18

One of the first things that should be decided is "are we using cons or not", before a half an hour goes by and you have already started the mission. The best strategy is to ask each joining party member up front if they are going to use cons.

If someone has an issue with using cons and not being compensated, they shouldn't offer to use the cons (or bother buying them )in the first place. This goes the same for res scrolls, DP removers ect.

If I'm in a group and I say, "I have res scrolls if the monk dies" or "I will take care of DP if necessary", then I have no place to get upset if I need to use what I've already offered. If everyone starts dying every ten seconds then just say "sorry that was my last (whatever)" and let that be that.

]

Striken7 · Jun 27, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Pretend you've got skill and don't use cons - or pugs for that matter.

Dante the Warlord · Jun 27, 2008, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Andicus

If there were a definition of epic fail, that statement would be it.

Offtopic

Ursan r 10 is pretty hard to reach even with the HM books. I tried to do it both ways through going the quest (forgot which one) in olafstead and doing the books. Altogether you probably need to spend at least a month casual or a week pretty darn serious to get to r10... thats just my opinion, but i definately feel that it is if not difficult then long and tedious to do, which ive pretty much given up on my war because i myself could not do the HM missions well enough, or just way too recklessly, and i didn't really want to do the quests

but i digress....

Damien i really agree with you whole pitching in thing with the consumables, and i actually think i like the idea...having everyone giving a piece of the consets and more, seems interesting and definately worthwhile to do. i.e. all Terras/permasin bring a rez scroll and an armor of salvation or grail of might, ursans bring a essence of celerity and monk bring a morale booster/ DP removers or pitching in for the essences (1.5k each per person on celerities?). Could work...

right not im not doing UW speed run basically because its not really great in the profits and really mean people generally run it. I also have lots of guilt saying no to people wanting to get into my group, which i feel everyone should be given a chance... But im just trying to get some info on whether people agree change should be done on the population or not, it seems that its on the not side, which is fine...

Unreal Havoc · Jun 27, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Until Shadow Form gets nerfed I'll just solo Chaos Planes instead of doing speed runs.

Considering the time having to be put into making a team it's far more profitable over time spent, I have no need to rely on team mates, and no need for spending money on consumables.

Shadey · Jun 27, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Grey

Here is a thought. Don't use the consets.

Actually on that note a funny thing is Monks seem to think they are the be all and end all when its a ursan grp..

U take away consets and see how well they do,I see them complain of nrg managment and see grp wipes etc..Quite funny when you think about it huh considering they always want Ursan to use consets..no we know why.

ok back to the topic,I think if u go with a pug everyone should pay,I dont go on those runs for speed so the terra is there to solo horsemen etc but the whole grp can still clear the plains with them..U dont have to let them solo those areas if it bothers you they make more ecto.

Just means the run isnt as fast.

Masseur · Jun 27, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Actually, getting Norn to Rank10 is not hard and doesn't take long. Getting in Norn Point Farm groups in Olafstead, depending on how much you play, might take a week or two. You get anywhere from a few K to 10K+ points per run, depending on the random bonuses you get and are able to keep.

Kanyatta · Jun 27, 2008, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Grey

Here is a thought. Don't use the consets.

Agreed. Unless you're bad, you really don't need them. Just don't have terrible monks and don't over aggro too much.

byteme! · Jun 27, 2008, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

ursan r 10 is VERY hard to reach..

Of All the "grindable" titles Norn is by far the easiest to get. This is fact. If you think Norn is hard then I can't imagine what you think about the others. Takes me 2-4 days of "casual" gaming to max my norn titles. I have maxed it on my Monk, Para, War, and my Ranger is r9. Also have a few other characters in the r4-5 range.

On topic: What pisses me off the most is this...

Party Leader: GLF 1 more Ursan (must have cons) 7/8...
Me: *invite myself*
Party Leader: Do you have cons?
Me: Yes, what about you guys? Anyone of you have cons?
Rest of team: (dead silent)
Me: So you're telling me you've arranged 7 other people to join your party and they are all counting on the 8th guy to bring cons?
Me: *leaves and finds another group*

I don't mind bringing cons but if I get a full team who's intent is to leech off of 1 guy instead of contributing their own cons then I gotta leave. If they plan to chip in I might reconsider but often this is not the case.

Gun Pierson · Jun 27, 2008, 11:24 PM // 23:24

It's a speed run, so yes we're talking about con sets, also pugs are not that good to risk playing without cons. That doesn't mean all pugs need a con set.

Don't expect terras and sins to bring the cons as the more money or ectos they have, the poorer and selfish they will act.

The best sollution is to devide the cost per person for a set, but even then some of them will leave.

'I are terra or sin, I gotz me 12 ectoz evry 30 minutz, thatz how poor me am.'

englitdaudelin · Jun 28, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10

If you want negotiation of some kind, and fair division of cons...ideally, each person might put ONE kind of consumable up? i.e. you put up the grail, someone else puts up celerity, someone else does blahdy blah. This takes a bit of luck, but that way, nobody's out ALL his or her consumables.
It's not easy to get, I suppose, but if you feel strongly that you should not be putting up a FULL set, then find people that will do this with you.

Scf Blacknight · Jun 28, 2008, 01:17 AM // 01:17

I think its funny how 'Terra's get more' is the defense whenever Consets become an issue. I've had 10 - 15 runs in a row as a Terra where all I get is the ecto from the chest, and then switched to Warrior and got 3. No part of the team is guaranteed anything. Not to mention, speed runs aren't about ecto, its about getting the reward chest as fast as possible. If you're concerned about ecto, Solo Sin, you'll get a lot more.

To whoever said Terra's need cons more than the rest.
Swiftness and Gold Eggs are winful.

The best choices.
Either run with a guild group or split cons evenly.

A11Eur0 · Jun 28, 2008, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by willypiggy

I never have consets tbh but I don't mind chipping in on a team conset, if everyone pays 1K each to the person who has them then thats fair, he gets 7K which is what they sell for.

so he buys a conset for 7k, gets 7k from his team, and benefits while the entire team pays? No.

If you bring a conset, use it. If you don't bring a conset, pay those who do. If 3 people bring sets, each of them should get 5k. So they pay 2k for their conset, the non-conset people pay 3k total each during the run. I'd say that's fair, the people bringing took the initiative and take the risk of a party wipe/fail and brought the set, they should get the 1k break.

Dante the Warlord · Jun 28, 2008, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Interesting points....

Well i think to best summarize what my point is that i would like to to not have to lose money for running these runs...thats all. i feel that a lot of the terras don't care if the team fails, why? because some make 6 ectos in the run and they don't really care about the end chest.. i will clarify with an example i remember

i was in a run where we got to the last quest, four horsemen. the perma sin had already made 6 ecto and the terras made 3 ecto each (possibly more, but as far as i remember they were around 3 or so). We lost... permas and terras ran off with a nice profit.. they didn't really care we all pitched in for the consets

Sometimes i think that the ursans/monks are the suckers and the terras and permas just do the quest for the purpose of farming the ectos in HM, they use your money to make their farm more profitable... Probably not true, but still...

maybe ive been in so many groups that have failed... Maybe its made me sour, but i have to believe other people are going through the same thing. Anyways i think i think ill stop doing the runs... ill accept with my losses